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Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #250] Sun, 25 March 2012 02:25 Go to next message
manigoldo38  is currently offline manigoldo38  France
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Hello,

First, i'm sorry for my bad english ...

I organize a travel between june and december 2013, i want to go around the lake ba??kal and after i want to start from Irkutsk and going to the lake Khosvgol with the road A164

My request is about the fronteer who's forbidden to the strangers, it's possible to have a special authorisation to cross her ?

My vehicule is a cycle with a wagon and i'm french.

Thanks !

Fabien
Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #251 is a reply to message #250 ] Sun, 25 March 2012 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zmey  is currently offline Zmey  Russian Federation
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Dear Fabien!

Las year (2011) I've crossed the border neas Huvsgol lake by bike. Here is report about this http://velopiter.spb.ru/rep/hubsugul/

I have no any problem in this.

I am not sure for French people, but we crossed border without any problems
Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #252 is a reply to message #250 ] Sun, 25 March 2012 17:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vvsar  is currently offline vvsar  Russian Federation
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Hello,

The border crossing points closest to lake Baykal are Kyakhta (N 50.3508338, E 106.449447) and Khandagayty (N 50.7333335 E 92.0500030). There are also three points between them (including Mondy), but they are bilateral (for Russians and Mongolians only).


Bicycly yours,
Victor
Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #253 is a reply to message #251 ] Sun, 25 March 2012 17:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
manigoldo38  is currently offline manigoldo38  France
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Hello Zmey !

Thanks for your comment ... and amazing pictures on your website.

For the moment i just can see pictures, but not read because i don't understand the Cyrillic. And google traduction is bad ...

I think you cross the frontier without because you are russian, i have other story of french tourist who are obliged to return behind .

Have a good day !

Fabien

Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #254 is a reply to message #253 ] Sun, 25 March 2012 17:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vvsar  is currently offline vvsar  Russian Federation
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As far as I know, Zmey crossed the border at Mondy (bilateral point). See intrnational (for all nationals) crossing points in my message above. And don't forget about a visa.


Bicycly yours,
Victor
Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #255 is a reply to message #252 ] Sun, 25 March 2012 17:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
manigoldo38  is currently offline manigoldo38  France
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Thanks Victor for the fronteer open to the strangers,but they are far from Irkutsk ...

Are you think it's possible to have special authorisation to cross the other fronteer reserved for the Russians and Mongolians ???
Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #256 is a reply to message #255 ] Sun, 25 March 2012 17:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vvsar  is currently offline vvsar  Russian Federation
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manigoldo38 wrote on Sun, 25 March 2012 17:30

Are you think it's possible to have special authorisation to cross the other fronteer reserved for the Russians and Mongolians ???



We can't answer this question immediately. We should consult someone who knows.


Bicycly yours,
Victor
Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #257 is a reply to message #256 ] Sun, 25 March 2012 18:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
manigoldo38  is currently offline manigoldo38  France
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vvsar wrote on Sun, 25 March 2012 15:51
manigoldo38 wrote on Sun, 25 March 2012 17:30

Are you think it's possible to have special authorisation to cross the other fronteer reserved for the Russians and Mongolians ???



We can't answer this question immediately. We should consult someone who knows.


It is not a problem, i'm just begin to study the route of my travel planned in June, 2013. I will be very reconaissant if you obtained the information !

Thank you !
Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #258 is a reply to message #250 ] Mon, 26 March 2012 03:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
repovesi  is currently offline repovesi  Russian Federation
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manigoldo38 wrote on Sun, 25 March 2012 02:25
My request is about the fronteer who's forbidden to the strangers, it's possible to have a special authorisation to cross her ?


Hello Fabien,

there're 8 road crossing point along RUS-MN border.
1. Tashanta in Altay Republic (multilateral).

2-4. Shara-Sur, Khandagaity, Tsaagan-Tolgoi in Tuva Republic (all of them bilataral)

5-6. Mondi and Kyakhta in Buryat Republic (bilateral and multilateral subsequently)

7-8. Verkhny Ulkhun and Solovijevsk - in Zabaykalsky Krai (bilateral and multilateral subsequently)

So, your route goes on Mondi. You have no chanse to cross the border here using French passport. Of course, you can write paper letter to Buryat branch of Border Guard Service of Russia using Russian language and the adress:
??????????????????? ???????????????? ???? ???????????
???? ??????????????? ????????????
670045, ??????-??????, ?????????????? ????????????????????????, 3?

and ask them official infos. Add international reply coupon in your letter obligatory.

The Border Guard Service must answer you during 30 days plus time for postal transmitting your letter (20+20 days). So, after approx. 3 months you can have official answer about possibility to cross the border via Mondi with French passport. I think, 95% it will be official rejection.

I think, you should redirect your route to Kyakhta multilateral crossborder point (approx. 500 km from Mondi).

[Updated on: Mon, 26 March 2012 03:12]


Sincerely yours, Mr. Repovesi
Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #259 is a reply to message #250 ] Mon, 26 March 2012 03:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
repovesi  is currently offline repovesi  Russian Federation
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manigoldo38 wrote on Sun, 25 March 2012 02:25
Hello,it's possible to have a special authorisation to cross her ?


There are several (6 ?) types of closed zones in Russia. Only one type - frontier closed zone is in your route. Fortunally, there is no foreigner protected area is in your route.

Text of official decree of Border Guard Service in Buryat Republic is here.

Everybody can transit via frontier closed zone from/to customs/crossing border point only and using main official road only.

Nobody can make camping in the frontier closed zone and walking freely without special permit, except local people with Russian ID (internal passport with local registration). Foreign people can ask the permit for free by paper letter, applying special form. The permit is making 60 days for foreign citizens (plus time for posting). Use international reply coupon in your letter obligatory, if you ask permit to adress abroad of Russia.


Sincerely yours, Mr. Repovesi
Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #260 is a reply to message #259 ] Mon, 26 March 2012 04:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
manigoldo38  is currently offline manigoldo38  France
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Hello M.Repovesi,

First, Thank you for the speed and the precision of your answer, and sorry for my bad english ...

If I'm understand you, i can cross the fronteer in Mondy with french passeport, special permit to make camping and walking freely in this area, russian and mongolian visa and i must stay on the main road. I'm right ?

The address to ask for the permit is the same that to ask for the information ?

??????????????????? ???????????????? ???? ???????????
???? ??????????????? ????????????
670045, ??????-??????, ?????????????? ????????????????????????, 3?

And i have to learn Russian to write my letter ... english don't work ?

I think too that redirect my road to Kyakhta is more easy ... Furthermore I have other probleme with mongolian visa who's excedeed 30days, i must go to ulan bator to register me before 7 days to enter in Mongolia.

But i'm going to try because make the road between the lake Ba??kal and the lake Khovsgol is now a obsession !

You talk me about foreigner protected area, those are my two road for 2013 and 2014 :

http://www.objectif-kamtchatka.com/?page_id=519

http://www.objectif-kamtchatka.com/?page_id=522


Are restricted zones present on my routes ?

Thank you still for your help !

Sincere greetings

Fabien


[Updated on: Mon, 26 March 2012 05:02]

Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #261 is a reply to message #260 ] Mon, 26 March 2012 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
repovesi  is currently offline repovesi  Russian Federation
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manigoldo38 wrote on Mon, 26 March 2012 04:59
i can cross the fronteer in Mondy with french passeport, special permit to make camping and walking freely in this area, russian and mongolian visa and i must stay on the main road. I'm right ?


Wrong.
A) If you have French passport+RUS-visa+MN-visa, you can use Kyakhta and must go along main road. Another permits not needed in this situation.

B) If you want walking freely in frontier zone (using any road, not only main), you can ask frontier-zone-permit (FZP). Making FZP is more or less easy (I think only 5% refusal).

C) If you want to cross the border via Mondy with French passport, you can ask another permit (Mondy-permit, MP). Making MP is very hard, almost impossible (I think 95% refusal).


manigoldo38 wrote on Mon, 26 March 2012 04:59
The address to ask for the permit is the same that to ask for the information ?

??????????????????? ???????????????? ???? ???????????
???? ??????????????? ????????????
670045, ??????-??????, ?????????????? ????????????????????????, 3?


Yes. The same.

manigoldo38 wrote on Mon, 26 March 2012 04:59
And i have to learn Russian to write my letter ... english don't work ?


You can try English, but I think better way is using Russian. Can French frontiers in Corse use Russian, he-he?

manigoldo38 wrote on Mon, 26 March 2012 04:59
Furthermore I have other probleme with mongolian visa who's excedeed 30days...


Ask help from Mongolian guys, not Russian Smile


manigoldo38 wrote on Mon, 26 March 2012 04:59
You talk me about foreigner protected area, those are my two road for 2013 and 2014 :

http://www.objectif-kamtchatka.com/?page_id=519


Only approx. 15 km about Mongolian Border.

manigoldo38 wrote on Mon, 26 March 2012 04:59
http://www.objectif-kamtchatka.com/?page_id=522
Are restricted zones present on my routes ?


No this route...But, where are you planing from Yakutsk? Wink


Sincerely yours, Mr. Repovesi
Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #262 is a reply to message #260 ] Tue, 27 March 2012 00:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vvsar  is currently offline vvsar  Russian Federation
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Fabien,

I guess Repovesi loaded you down with all that stuff about border zone. Don't worry! No problem if you just cross it along the road and do not stay overnight outside a hotel or other facilities where overnighting is permitted officially.

I had a look on your map. A you really going to travel for half a year? Your route is long, but half a year seems pretty much time. You can take a detour to lake Khovsgol from Moron and then continue to Kyakhta via Erdenet and so on. In this case, you may not see the very south of lake Baykal. If it is a must, take a train from Ulan-Ude to Kultuk and start over.

Update: Sorry, I saw that you start from Irkutsk, not finish. Just change the direction of my suggestion.

[Updated on: Tue, 27 March 2012 00:07]


Bicycly yours,
Victor
Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #263 is a reply to message #250 ] Wed, 28 March 2012 01:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
manigoldo38  is currently offline manigoldo38  France
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Hello,

Quote:
If you want to cross the border via Mondy with French passport, you can ask another permit (Mondy-permit, MP). Making MP is very hard, almost impossible (I think 95% refusal)


Ok ... I am going to plan other "official" routes if I have no authorization for mondy. Certainly Kyakhta or Tashanta.

Quote:
You can try English, but I think better way is using Russian. Can French frontiers in Corse use Russian, he-he?


Not false Smile I'm starting to learn russian , it's be useful for more one year in Russia Smile

Other solution, i'm going to stay in Irkutsk one or two weeks before start my travel, you think is possible to ask the permit directly in the city ?

Quote:
No this route...But, where are you planing from Yakutsk?


I want to go in Tcherski !

Quote:
Don't worry! No problem if you just cross it along the road and do not stay overnight outside a hotel or other facilities


But i prefere wild camping and little road than hotel ... so i think it's better to take the frontier-zone-permit !

Quote:
A you really going to travel for half a year? Your route is long, but half a year seems pretty much time


Yes i planed large : 2 month to do Irkutsk-Irkutsk around the lake Ba??kal because there is a lot of parts without road.

Before, one month to go in mongolia

And two or three month in mongolia.

If i have time, i would explorate country Smile

Quote:
You can take a detour to lake Khovsgol from Moron


Edit : Can you see the lake Khovsgol before to cross mondy ? And the road between Irkutsk and Mondy is nice to see ?

Yes i think i do that if i use the road which crosses Kyakhta !

.....

Other subject without any link with cycling,

Victor and M.Repovesi i see you live in St.Petersburg, and i'm going to stay here in january 2014 to visit the city during one or two weeks. Nobody pratice judo ? I search some russian club to continue has to make a little of training and test the Russian judokas.

Have a good day !

Fabien

[Updated on: Wed, 28 March 2012 01:58]

Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #264 is a reply to message #263 ] Wed, 28 March 2012 03:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
vvsar  is currently offline vvsar  Russian Federation
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manigoldo38 wrote on Wed, 28 March 2012 01:49


Quote:
Don't worry! No problem if you just cross it along the road and do not stay overnight outside a hotel or other facilities


But i prefere wild camping and little road than hotel ... so i think it's better to take the frontier-zone-permit !


I mean that the border zone is not too wide. You can overnight before it and cross it in one day. No permit is needed in such case.

manigoldo38 wrote on Wed, 28 March 2012 01:49


Quote:
A you really going to travel for half a year? Your route is long, but half a year seems pretty much time


Yes i planed large : 2 month to do Irkutsk-Irkutsk around the lake Ba??kal because there is a lot of parts without road.


To these guys, it took just 11 days to get to Ulan-Ude from Novy Uoyan. Good report, it is in Russian, but photos talk!

manigoldo38 wrote on Wed, 28 March 2012 01:49


Victor and M.Repovesi i see you live in St.Petersburg, and i'm going to stay here in january 2014 to visit the city during one or two weeks. Nobody pratice judo ? I search some russian club to continue has to make a little of training and test the Russian judokas.


Google finds some clubs. Ask about it later before your journey.


Bicycly yours,
Victor
Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #265 is a reply to message #263 ] Wed, 28 March 2012 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
repovesi  is currently offline repovesi  Russian Federation
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manigoldo38 wrote on Wed, 28 March 2012 01:49
Other solution, i'm going to stay in Irkutsk one or two weeks before start my travel, you think is possible to ask the permit directly in the city ?


Bad idea. The permit making process for foreign citizens goes on 60 days.


manigoldo38 wrote on Wed, 28 March 2012 01:49
I want to go in Tcherski


Tcherski-town is in frontier zone. You must have permit.


manigoldo38 wrote on Wed, 28 March 2012 01:49
Before, one month to go in mongolia. And two or three month in mongolia.


NB: Russian visa valid 90 days in time frame 183 days. So, you should travel in Mongolia for 93 days minimum between visiting Russia, if you was in Russia for 90 days during first trip.


manigoldo38 wrote on Wed, 28 March 2012 01:49
Other subject without any link with cycling, Nobody pratice judo ?


Vova Putin practiced, but he's working in Moscow till 2018, unfortunatelly Smile

[Updated on: Wed, 28 March 2012 09:51]


Sincerely yours, Mr. Repovesi
Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #270 is a reply to message #263 ] Sun, 01 April 2012 01:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
manigoldo38  is currently offline manigoldo38  France
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Hi victor and M.Repovesi

Quote:
I mean that the border zone is not too wide. You can overnight before it and cross it in one day. No permit is needed in such case.


Ok, but i think i choose an other route crossing by Kyakhta ... no problems of visa and permit

Quote:
To these guys, it took just 11 days to get to Ulan-Ude from Novy Uoyan. Good report, it is in Russian, but photos talk!


wow good pictures, but for the moment the rapport is not readable without notions of Cyrilic ...

Quote:
Bad idea. The permit making process for foreign citizens goes on 60 days.


Ok if i project to realize this route, i'll anticipe the procedure.

Quote:
Tcherski-town is in frontier zone. You must have permit.


still a permit Sad Do you have another adress to obtain the tcherski permit ? What are the limits about this frontier zone ? Can i go without permit in this Town if we slept in hostel ?

Quote:
NB: Russian visa valid 90 days in time frame 183 days. So, you should travel in Mongolia for 93 days minimum between visiting Russia, if you was in Russia for 90 days during first trip.


Ok thanks for the notice.

Quote:
Vova Putin practiced, but he's working in Moscow till 2018, unfortunatelly


Ok i search other oponent Smile

++

Fabien
Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #272 is a reply to message #270 ] Sun, 01 April 2012 11:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
repovesi  is currently offline repovesi  Russian Federation
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manigoldo38 wrote on Sun, 01 April 2012 01:04
Quote:
Tcherski-town is in frontier zone. You must have permit.


still a permit Sad Do you have another adress to obtain the tcherski permit ?


??????????????????? ??????? ???? ???????????
???? ??????????????? ????? (???????????)
677000, ??????????????? ?????(???????????),
??. ???????????, ???. ????????????????????, 6


manigoldo38 wrote on Sun, 01 April 2012 01:04
What are the limits about this frontier zone ?


I've already said. See the Order.

manigoldo38 wrote on Sun, 01 April 2012 01:04
Can i go without permit in this Town if we slept in hostel ?


Everybody, except local people (with a registration in the internal Russian passport) must have a permit. Person, who tries going to the frontier zone without a permit will be fined for 500 rubles (approx. 12EUR). But it's bad idea to go to the zone with 12 EUR, because this fine will be documented by FSB as administrative offense against state administrative order.

And, due to Russian migration law, only one administrative protocol in field of "against state administrative order" can be result of deportation abroad of Russia, and a block next entry to Russia for 2 years. Sad

So, the entry to the frontier zone without a permit is more or less normal for Russian citizens only, because the fine is not so big.

[Updated on: Sun, 01 April 2012 11:55]


Sincerely yours, Mr. Repovesi
Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #273 is a reply to message #272 ] Wed, 04 April 2012 01:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
manigoldo38  is currently offline manigoldo38  France
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Hello,

Quote:

??????????????????? ??????? ???? ???????????
???? ??????????????? ????? (???????????)
677000, ??????????????? ?????(???????????),
??. ???????????, ???. ????????????????????, 6



Thanks for the adress !

Quote:
And, due to Russian migration law, only one administrative protocol in field of "against state administrative order" can be result of deportation abroad of Russia, and a block next entry to Russia for 2 years.


No problem i respect the law Smile If i can't have the permit for tcherski, i can go to other city border of arctic zone for example Tiksi or Pevek. They are in frontiere-zone too ?

Just a question about the visa : i read on various website, only 3months visa is allowed for tourist ... it's true ? For my second travel planned in Russia 3 months are too short ...

Thanks

Fabien

Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #274 is a reply to message #273 ] Wed, 04 April 2012 06:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
repovesi  is currently offline repovesi  Russian Federation
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manigoldo38 wrote on Wed, 04 April 2012 01:47
i can go to other city border of arctic zone for example Tiksi or Pevek. They are in frontiere-zone too ?


Tiksi, yes in frontier zone in Yakutia (Sakha) Rep.

?? ??????????????????????? ?????????????????? "???????????????? ??????? (?????????)" - ????????????????? ????????????? ??????????????? ???????????????? ?????????, ??????-????????????? ?????????, ????????????????????? ?????????, ???????????????????? ??????????????? ???????????? ??????????;


Pevek, yes in frontier zone of Chukotka Autonomous Okrug.

?? ??????????????????????? ?????????????????? "?????????????? ?????????" - ????????????????? ????????????? ??????????????? ????????, ??????????, ????????????, ???????????????????? ??????????????? ????????;

But NB! All territory (100%) of Chukotka Autonomous Okrug is in another type of closed zone, so called TZI (?????????????????, ??????????? ????? ??????????????????, territory restricted for foreign citizens). It's another type of permit, very hard for foreigners (for citizens of Russia this permits never needed). That permits issue of FSB directly, not Border Guard Service of Russia.

Adresses:
Border Guard Service of Russia, Chukotka Autonomous Okrug branch:
??????????????????? ???????????????? ???? ???????????
???? ?????????????????? ???????????????????? ????????????
689000, ???????????????? ????????????????? ??????????,
??. ????????????, ???. ?????? 46-?


FSB, Chukotka Autonomous Okrug branch:
???????????????? ????????????????? ???????? ??????????????????? ???????????
???? ?????????????????? ???????????????????? ????????????
689000, ???????????????? ????????????????? ??????????,
??. ????????????, ???. ??????, 31

phone: +7 42722 22886 (helpline, 24h, Russian only)
E-mail: ufsb87@fsb.ru, Russian only
Chief: Colonel ???????????? ????????? ?????????????????? (Drozdov Stepan V.)

manigoldo38 wrote on Wed, 04 April 2012 01:47
Just a question about the visa : i read on various website, only 3months visa is allowed for tourist ... it's true ? For my second travel planned in Russia 3 months are too short ...


Yes, it's true. All type of nonimmigrant Russian visa is 90 days maximum. There are 87 subtypes of Russia visa, see there.
Tourist visas have type 04, subtypes 55-60, maximum 30 days, maximum number of entries 2.
Guest visas have type 02, subtypes 35-40, maximum 90 days, maximum number of entries 2.
Business visas have type 03, subtypes 41-54, maximum 1 year, but no more 90 days during each period 183 days, maximum number of entries unlimited.

The citizens about 90 contries in the World include Serbia, Montenegro, Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Israel, SAR Hong Kong, Turkey, Thailand and Peru can go to Russia without visas. Russia government is asking visa free regime between RUS and EU from 2002. So, say "thanx" for your Brussel government Sad


Sincerely yours, Mr. Repovesi
Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #275 is a reply to message #274 ] Wed, 04 April 2012 15:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
manigoldo38  is currently offline manigoldo38  France
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Hello,

Quote:
Tiksi, yes in frontier zone in Yakutia (Sakha) Rep.

?? ??????????????????????? ?????????????????? "???????????????? ??????? (?????????)" - ????????????????? ????????????? ??????????????? ???????????????? ?????????, ??????-????????????? ?????????, ????????????????????? ?????????, ???????????????????? ??????????????? ???????????? ??????????;


The text in cyrillic bottom Tiksi is the adress for ask the frontier-zone permit of Yakutia republic ?

Quote:
Russia government is asking visa free regime between RUS and EU from 2002. So, say "thanx" for your Brussel government


Regrettably for french people the U.E cause many other problems that Russian visas ... Sad


Thanks you still Mr. Repovesi, your informations are very helpful for planned my route with different possibility :

http://www.objectif-kamtchatka.com/?page_id=519

http://www.objectif-kamtchatka.com/?page_id=522

Fabien

[Updated on: Wed, 04 April 2012 15:40]

Re: Frontier between Russia and Mongolia [message #276 is a reply to message #275 ] Sat, 07 April 2012 05:50 Go to previous message
repovesi  is currently offline repovesi  Russian Federation
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manigoldo38 wrote on Wed, 04 April 2012 15:36
... Tiksi is the adress for ask the frontier-zone permit of Yakutia republic ?


I wrote it above. Again:
??????????????????? ??????? ???? ???????????
???? ??????????????? ????? (???????????)
677000, ??????????????? ?????(???????????),
??. ???????????, ???. ????????????????????, 6


And, NB! The laws in Russia are liberalising very fast. For example, in 2011 the migration registration of foreign travellers was abolished, and the borders RUS-AZ and RUS-GEO were opened for all passports (all citizenships).
So, I think on 2014 some closed zones will be opened.


Sincerely yours, Mr. Repovesi
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